《新闻周刊》访谈

图片描述

Steve, at home, is dressed in jeans and a sweater. He holds a mug and stares pensively at the camera from his leather sofa. 史蒂夫在家中，穿着牛仔裤和毛衣，手持马克杯，从皮质沙发上若有所思地凝视着镜头。

背景: 1985年9月，史蒂夫在与CEO约翰·斯卡利的权力斗争中离开苹果。这次离开在官方上是辞职，但史蒂夫认为这是背叛。几周后，他接受了《新闻周刊》的采访。

主题: "我想建造东西"

核心概念

  1. 约翰·斯卡利 (John Sculley) - 苹果CEO，与乔布斯权力斗争
  2. 麦金塔 (Macintosh) - 麦金塔作为未来电脑的标准

内容

中文翻译

《新闻周刊》: 当你听到[苹果]董事会决定[起诉你]时，你是什么反应？这些人是你认识和共事很久的人。

史蒂夫·乔布斯: 哦，是的。我是说，在我最疯狂的想象中，我也想不到这一切会有如此疯狂的结局。我希望我的生活会呈现出一种有趣的挂毯的特质，我会在苹果进进出出：我会在那里待一段时间，也许我会去做其他贡献，但与苹果保持联系，然后也许回来待很长一段时间，然后再去做其他事情。但这不会那样发展。所以我有十年最美好的时光，你知道。我并不后悔任何事情。

我个人，伙计，我想建造东西。我三十岁了。我还没准备好成为行业评论员。这个夏天我有三个当教授的邀请，我告诉所有大学，我觉得我会是个糟糕的教授。我最擅长的是找到一群有才华的人，和他们一起创造东西。我尊重苹果的发展方向。但就我个人而言，你知道，我想创造东西。如果在那里没有我创造东西的地方，那么我会做我以前做过两次的事情。我会创建自己的地方。你知道，苹果开始时我在车库里做到了，Mac开始时我在比喻的车库里做到了。

SJ: 虽然外界从数字的角度看成功，但我的标准可能完全不同。我的标准可能是，从现在起设计的每台电脑都必须至少和麦金塔一样好。

SJ: 我过去去上班，我会到那里，我会有一两个电话要打，有一点邮件要看。但是——这是在六月、七月——大多数企业管理报告不再流经我的办公桌。少数人可能会看到我的车在停车场，过来表示同情。我会很沮丧，三到四个小时后回家，真的很沮丧。我这样做了几次，我决定那在心理上不健康。所以我就不去了。你知道，那里真的没有人想念我。

Q: 你觉得他们把你的公司从你那里拿走了吗？

SJ: 对我来说，苹果存在于在那里工作的人的精神中，以及他们从事业务的哲学和目的中。所以如果苹果只是变成一个电脑是商品的地方，浪漫消失了，人们忘记电脑是人类发明的最不可思议的发明，那么我会觉得我失去了苹果。但如果我在一百万英里之外，所有那些人仍然有那种感觉，他们仍然在努力制造下一台伟大的个人电脑，那么我会觉得我的基因还在里面。

SJ: 最困难的五天之一是那天约翰[斯卡利，苹果的CEO]在分析师会议上说未来没有我的角色，一周后他在另一个分析师会议上又说了同样的话。他没有直接对我说；他对媒体说的。你可能有过有人打你的肚子，让你喘不过气来，你无法呼吸的经历。如果你放松，你就会再次开始呼吸。这就是我一整个夏天的感觉。我必须做的是试着放松。这很难。但我在树林里走了很多很长的路，没有真正和很多人交谈。

Q: 你谈到过难以相处，性格粗糙。你在某种程度上导致了自己的垮台吗？

SJ: 你知道，我不是一个六十二岁的走遍世界的政治家。所以我相信，二十五岁时有一些情况，如果我能回去，知道我现在知道的，我可以处理得好得多。而且我相信三十五岁时我会对1985年的情况说同样的话。我在信念上可以非常强烈。而且我不知道——总的来说，我挺喜欢自己，我不是那么急于改变。

Q: 但这次经历改变了你吗？

SJ: 哦，这确实——是的，我觉得我在从中成长，我觉得我从中学到了很多。我还不确定如何或什么。但是的，我有那种感觉。我不苦涩；我不苦涩。

Q: 媒体上有很多关于你对佛教、素食主义的兴趣。

SJ: 当我们陷入主义之中。

Q: 主义。你还对这些感兴趣吗？

SJ: 嗯，我不知道该说什么。我是说，我不吃肉，我也不每个周日去教堂。

Q: 他们说在某个时候你曾想过去日本坐在寺院里。

SJ: 是啊，是啊。我很高兴我没有那样做。我知道这听起来真的很老套。但我觉得我是美国人，我出生在这里。而世界的命运现在掌握在美国手中。我真的觉得是这样。而且你知道，我要在这里过我的生活，尽我所能帮助。

英文原文

Interview with Newsweek, Make Something Wonderful

Interview with Newsweek

"I want to build things."

Steve left Apple in September 1985, after losing a power struggle with CEO John Sculley. The departure was officially a resignation, but Steve considered it a betrayal. A few weeks later, he spoke to Newsweek.

Newsweek: How did you react when you heard the [Apple] board's decision [to sue you]? These were people that you knew and worked with for a long time.

Steve Jobs: Oh, yeah. I mean, in my wildest imagination, I couldn't have come up with such a wild ending to all of this. I had hoped that my life would take on the quality of an interesting tapestry where I would have weaved in and out of Apple: I would have been there a period of time, and maybe I would have gone off and done something else to contribute, but connected with Apple, and then maybe come back and stay for a lengthy time period, and then go off and do something else. But it's just not going to work out that way. So I had ten of the best years of my life, you know. And I don't regret much of anything.

I personally, man, I want to build things. I'm thirty. I'm not ready to be an industry pundit. I got three offers to be a professor during this summer, and I told all of the universities that I thought I would be an awful professor. What I'm best at doing is finding a group of talented people and making things with them. I respect the direction that Apple is going in. But for me personally, you know, I want to make things. And if there's no place for me to make things there, then I'll do what I did twice before. I'll make my own place. You know, I did it in the garage when Apple started, and I did it in the metaphorical garage when Mac started.

SJ: Though the outside world looks at success from a numerical point of view, my yardstick might be quite different than that. My yardstick may be how every computer that's designed from here on out will have to be at least as good as a Macintosh.

SJ: I used to go into work, I'd get there, and I would have one or two phone calls to perform, a little bit of mail to look at. But—this was in June, July—most of the corporate management reports stopped flowing by my desk. A few people might see my car in the parking lot and come over and commiserate.

And I would get depressed and go home in three or four hours, really depressed. I did that a few times, and I decided that was mentally unhealthy. So I just stopped going in. You know, there was nobody really there to miss me.

Q: Do you feel that they have taken your company away from you?

SJ: To me, Apple exists in the spirit of the people that work there, and the sort of philosophies and purpose by which they go about their business. So if Apple just becomes a place where computers are a commodity item and where the romance is gone, and where people forget that computers are the most incredible invention that man has ever invented, then I'll feel I have lost Apple. But if I'm a million miles away and all those people still feel those things and they're still working to make the next great personal computer, then I will feel that my genes are still in there.

SJ: One of the five most difficult days was that day John [Sculley, Apple's CEO] said at the analysts meeting about there not being a role for me in the future, and he said it again in another analysts meeting a week later. He didn't say it to me directly; he said it to the press. You've probably had somebody punch you in the stomach and it knocks the wind out of you and you can't breathe. If you relax, you'll start breathing again. That's how I felt all summer long. The thing I had to do was try to relax. It was hard. But I went for a lot of long walks in the woods and didn't really talk to a lot of people.

Q: You've talked about being tough to get along with, having a rough-edge personality. Did you contribute in some way to your own downfall?

SJ: You know, I'm not a sixty-two-year-old statesman that's traveled around the world all his life. So I'm sure that there was a situation when I was twenty-five that if I could go back, knowing what I know now, I could have handled much better. And I'm sure I'll be able to say the same thing when I'm thirty-five about the situation in 1985. I can be very intense in my convictions. And I don't know—all in all, I kind of like myself, and I'm not that anxious to change.

Q: But has this experience changed you?

SJ: Oh, this has—yeah, I think I am growing from this, and I think I'm learning a lot from it. I'm not sure how or what yet. But yes, I feel that way. I'm not bitter; I'm not bitter.

Q: There's been a lot in the press about your interest in Buddhism, vegetarianism.

SJ: As we descend into the isms.

Q: The isms. Are you still interested in those things?

SJ: Well, I don't know what to say. I mean, I don't eat meat, and I don't go to church every Sunday.

Q: They said at some point you had thought of going to Japan and sitting in a monastery.

SJ: Yeah, yeah. I'm glad I didn't do that. I know this is going to sound really, really corny. But I feel like I'm an American, and I was born here. And the fate of the world is in America's hands right now. I really feel that. And you know, I'm going to live my life here and do what I can to help.

思考与洞察

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